Baptismal Regeneration: A Continued Response to John MacArthur
On today's program I continued my discussion of John MacArthur's lectures on baptism. I spent the majority of the discussion demonstrating why MacArthur's arguments about the meaning and purpose of baptism have no exegetical grounding.
QUESTION: when were you baptized? I was baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church. Later I joined a church that told me infant baptism was not valid. I got rebaptized. But looking back I regret it. I think my infant baptism should have been enough. The church that rebaptized me(which baptism I renounce today) was an International Church of Christ (Restoration Movement Theology pushed to the extreme). They do not baptize infants. They only acknowledge baptisms they perform.
Jordan, I recall you mentioning somewhere that you are reading T.F. Torrance. I just wanted to share with you two blog posts that do a great job summarizing his views on baptism and the Eucharist. I think you will really enjoy them.
"... if baptism is only symbolic, why such a fuss about the mode?"
Perfect! Love it!
And this one (asked of the Evangelical)
" How odd. You believe that Jesus is alive...and living in your heart...but yet you don't believe that He can be in a bowl of water, accompanied by His Word?"
BTW, for the record it saddens me to take a stance against MacArthur. He was one of the first in the evangelical camp to make a bold stand against the charismatic movement's infiltration of the church, and was instrumental in my leaving the movement.
Excellent program again Jordan. Interesting to hear John MacArthur try to draw an edge in the topic of Baptism and explicitly imply from the texts that there are 2 kids of Baptism ... when Apostle Saint PAUL himself said it clearly in Eph. 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one BAPTISM."
I have also heard other Evangelicals make a distinction/false-dichotomy on Holy Gospel John 3:5 (born again ... of water & Spirit .. .meaning natural birth-womb-water and spiritual-thru-Holy-Ghost). Also, Pentecostals will also argue for a 3rd kind of Baptism, of the Holy Spirit, which is supposed to be different than water baptism. Again, clear violation of God's word in Eph 4:5.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Are there two distinct water baptisms? Was there one baptism for the first century church of Christ and another baptism for the twenty first century church of Christ? Contrary to what many believe, there is just one baptism.
ONE BAPTISM-First century baptism was in order to receive the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38 ....and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...)
SECOND BAPTISM- Many contemporary believers deny that Acts 2:38 says water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins. They assert the baptism is in order to join a denominational church of their choice. They proclaim the purpose of water baptism is for a testimony of their faith. They say water baptism is to demonstrate that their sins have already been forgiven. They claim water baptism is nothing more then being obedient to the command of Jesus. They say baptism has nothing to do with their salvation.None of the second baptism reasons, that are given for the purpose of water baptism, are found in the Bible. The traditions of men are not found Scripture.
There are sources for explaining the purpose of water baptism. 1. The Holy Bible 2. The Bible of Men's Tradition.
WATER BAPTISM
Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Traditions 3:27 For all you who were spiritually baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who disbelieved shall be condemned.
Traditions 16:16 He who has believed shall be saved. He who has already been saved shall be baptized. He who has disbelieved shall be condemned. He who rejects water baptism will be saved, however, he will not be allowed to join any denominational church.
Colossians 2:12-13 having been buried with Him is baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having for forgiven us all out transgressions,
Traditions 2:12-13 having been buried with Him in spiritual baptism.......
Acts 22:16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away you sins, calling on His name.'
Traditions 22:16 Saul, your sins were forgiven by faith alone, three days ago when you believed, while on the road to Damascus. I command you to be spiritually baptized. Get up and be baptized spiritually so your sins can be washed away again.
1 Peter 3:20-21 ...eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you---not the removal of dirt from the flesh , but an appeal to God for a good conscience---through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Traditions 3:20-21 eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that water baptism is not essential for you to be saved...
Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
Traditions 5:25-27...... 26 so that He might sanctify her, by the washing of the word of God with the word.......
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Traditions 2:28 Peter said to them, "Repent for the forgiveness of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because your sins have already been forgiven......
WHICH BIBLE DO YOU TRUST, The Holy Bible or The Bible of Men's Traditions?
Water baptism is essential for salvation contrary to the doctrines of men!
(All Scripture from;NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE)
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com
14 comments:
Excellent Rebuttal, Jordan.
QUESTION: when were you baptized? I was baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church. Later I joined a church that told me infant baptism was not valid. I got rebaptized. But looking back I regret it. I think my infant baptism should have been enough. The church that rebaptized me(which baptism I renounce today) was an International Church of Christ (Restoration Movement Theology pushed to the extreme). They do not baptize infants. They only acknowledge baptisms they perform.
Jordan, I recall you mentioning somewhere that you are reading T.F. Torrance. I just wanted to share with you two blog posts that do a great job summarizing his views on baptism and the Eucharist. I think you will really enjoy them.
Baptism: http://martinmdavis.blogspot.mx/2011/10/tf-torrance-vicarious-humanity-of-jesus.html
Eucharist:http://martinmdavis.blogspot.mx/2011/11/tf-torrance-vicarious-humanity-of-jesus.html
Very good podcast, and you asked the same question I've thought many times: if baptism is only symbolic, why such a fuss about the mode?
"... if baptism is only symbolic, why such a fuss about the mode?"
Perfect! Love it!
And this one (asked of the Evangelical)
" How odd. You believe that Jesus is alive...and living in your heart...but yet you don't believe that He can be in a bowl of water, accompanied by His Word?"
BTW, for the record it saddens me to take a stance against MacArthur. He was one of the first in the evangelical camp to make a bold stand against the charismatic movement's infiltration of the church, and was instrumental in my leaving the movement.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Excellent program again Jordan. Interesting to hear John MacArthur try to draw an edge in the topic of Baptism and explicitly imply from the texts that there are 2 kids of Baptism ... when Apostle Saint PAUL himself said it clearly in Eph. 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one BAPTISM."
I have also heard other Evangelicals make a distinction/false-dichotomy on Holy Gospel John 3:5 (born again ... of water & Spirit .. .meaning natural birth-womb-water and spiritual-thru-Holy-Ghost). Also, Pentecostals will also argue for a 3rd kind of Baptism, of the Holy Spirit, which is supposed to be different than water baptism. Again, clear violation of God's word in Eph 4:5.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Have you ever come across the OPC minister and Westminster (California) professor JV Fesko's work on Luther and baptism? He argues Luther never taught or defended regenerative baptism, but that was a later innovation by the Lutherans.
Talking to convinced Lutherans (and a few Reformed) who have read his works, it seems there may be a confusion (intentionally or not) about the definition of regeneration in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions.
I haven't read Fesko myself, just wondering if you or anyone else has come across him.
Katy,
I am aware of the book, but have not read it. But that is quite an amazing and completely unfounded claim.
If Luther never taught Baptismal regeneration then he was wrong.
"Baptism now saves you..." 1st Peter
"Those of you who were baptized have put on Christ."
Galatians 4 (I believe)
"In baptism you receive the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit."
Acts
Oops, sorry for the multiple posts. I had a hard time proving I'm not a robot.
WATER BAPTISM THEN AND NOW?
Are there two distinct water baptisms? Was there one baptism for the first century church of Christ and another baptism for the twenty first century church of Christ? Contrary to what many believe, there is just one baptism.
ONE BAPTISM-First century baptism was in order to receive the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38 ....and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...)
SECOND BAPTISM- Many contemporary believers deny that Acts 2:38 says water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins. They assert the baptism is in order to join a denominational church of their choice. They proclaim the purpose of water baptism is for a testimony of their faith. They say water baptism is to demonstrate that their sins have already been forgiven. They claim water baptism is nothing more then being obedient to the command of Jesus. They say baptism has nothing to do with their salvation.None of the second baptism reasons, that are given for the purpose of water baptism, are found in the Bible. The traditions of men are not found Scripture.
There are sources for explaining the purpose of water baptism.
1. The Holy Bible
2. The Bible of Men's Tradition.
WATER BAPTISM
Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Traditions 3:27 For all you who were spiritually baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who disbelieved shall be condemned.
Traditions 16:16 He who has believed shall be saved. He who has already been saved shall be baptized. He who has disbelieved shall be condemned. He who rejects water baptism will be saved, however, he will not be allowed to join any denominational church.
Colossians 2:12-13 having been buried with Him is baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having for forgiven us all out transgressions,
Traditions 2:12-13 having been buried with Him in spiritual baptism.......
Acts 22:16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away you sins, calling on His name.'
Traditions 22:16 Saul, your sins were forgiven by faith alone, three days ago when you believed, while on the road to Damascus. I command you to be spiritually baptized. Get up and be baptized spiritually so your sins can be washed away again.
1 Peter 3:20-21 ...eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you---not the removal of dirt from the flesh , but an appeal to God for a good conscience---through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1 Traditions 3:20-21 eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that water baptism is not essential for you to be saved...
Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
Traditions 5:25-27...... 26 so that He might sanctify her, by the washing of the word of God with the word.......
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Traditions 2:28 Peter said to them, "Repent for the forgiveness of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because your sins have already been forgiven......
WHICH BIBLE DO YOU TRUST, The Holy Bible or The Bible of Men's Traditions?
Water baptism is essential for salvation contrary to the doctrines of men!
(All Scripture from;NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE)
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com
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