On this week's program, I did a follow up to the Michael Brown interview with Pastor Daniel Price. We talked about Pastor Price's history in the charismatic movement, his transition into Lutheranism, and some worries we have about contemporary charismatic theology and practice. 
Wednesday, January 8, 2014
A Discussion with Daniel Price on the Charismatic Movement
On this week's program, I did a follow up to the Michael Brown interview with Pastor Daniel Price. We talked about Pastor Price's history in the charismatic movement, his transition into Lutheranism, and some worries we have about contemporary charismatic theology and practice. 
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My personal experience has always been with the more vanilla charismatics. The problems with the Charismatic Movement go beyond "the fringe".
In fact, the "normal" charismatics in non-Pentecostal bodies (like the SBC) have serious theological issues that can have significant spiritual consequences.
Example:
When you are constantly looking for signs and miracles you run into the same problem as those who are obsessed with end times dispensationalism. (Sadly, sometimes these are the same people..) You get a blind spot for the eternal consequences of what is going on and constantly look to the temporal issues that, while important, are ALL secondary to the Gospel.
So, if a loved one is terminally ill and is having a crisis of faith in the face of death, no gospel is given to them. It doesn’t even enter people’s minds when they come visit the sick. Salvation is not preached. The only thing many charismatics can see is declaring healings and gathering for prayer. In fact, they are so bound by the Christian version of the Law of Attraction that they can’t face real tragedy honestly. They also avoid it in their daily life in chasing after blessing. This makes them incapable of dealing with real suffering when they encounter it and applying the proper remedy.
I don’t care what “good” thing is your hobby. If it gets in the way of the Gospel in anyway; if it distracts from the Gospel; if it is put up on par with the Gospel; if it is the first thing that you look to instead of the Gospel; it is dangerous… and probably and idol.
My personal experience has always been with the more vanilla charismatics. The problems with the Charismatic Movement go beyond "the fringe".
In fact, the "normal" charismatics in non-Pentecostal bodies (like the SBC) have serious theological issues that can have significant spiritual consequences.
Example:
When you are constantly looking for signs and miracles you run into the same problem as those who are obsessed with end times dispensationalism. (Sadly, sometimes these are the same people..) You get a blind spot for the eternal consequences of what is going on and constantly look to the temporal issues that, while important, are ALL secondary to the Gospel.
So, if a loved one is terminally ill and is having a crisis of faith in the face of death, no gospel is given to them. It doesn’t even enter people’s minds when they come visit the sick. Salvation is not preached. The only thing many charismatics can see is declaring healings and gathering for prayer. In fact, they are so bound by the Christian version of the Law of Attraction that they can’t face real tragedy honestly. They also avoid it in their daily life in chasing after blessing. This makes them incapable of dealing with real suffering when they encounter it and applying the proper remedy.
I don’t care what “good” thing is your hobby. If it gets in the way of the Gospel in anyway; if it distracts from the Gospel; if it is put up on par with the Gospel; if it is the first thing that you look to instead of the Gospel; it is dangerous… and probably and idol.
Here are some challenges that I don't think Charismatics look at:
1. All religions have their mystics. They all have branches that have identical experiences to the Christian Charismatics. There is not a single miracle, sign, experience, or gift that cannot be also seen in the pagan religions. That would point to the fact that not all of these things are of the Holy Spirit.
2. Scientists have artificially stimulated the brain in mystics of various religions and duplicated the "religious experiences" in those same subjects that they claim to have artificially in lab environments. (don’t get me started about the debunking studies on tongues.)
3. Satan is so powerful that he believed he could challenge God. Such a powerful being could certainly deceive the most discerning human completely by manipulating situations and experiences... and could give decades of good things to someone to set up eventual evil down the road.
4. Even atheists can recognize coincidence. Pagan cultures understand kismet and serendipity. These occurrences are not uniquely Christian. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not the activity of the Spirit... it is a logical fallacy.
5. Music is a mood manipulator. If you watch a horror film with no sound it is not as scary. If you take the musical manipulation out of a Charismatic service, the Spirit vacates. Carefully planned and timed music has been used in the American Church to prompt spiritual reactions since Charles Finney in the 1800s… and it has been perfected to an art with modern technologies and marketing.
6. Emotional exhilaration can be felt at a U2 concert.
7. Gestalt principles demonstrate that like minded individuals who interact with each other align their thinking and often move along similar lines of thought simultaneously and independently. Culture shapes modes of thinking and feeling in ways that culture members rarely notice or appreciate. This means that two scientists working in close proximity can develop virtually the same idea on their own without actual collaboration. So when three Christians bring up the same thought out of the blue at the same time, it could as easily explained as the Gestalt of their community… not the move of the Spirit.
8. In Scripture, even true miracles can be performed by pagans. I site the magicians of Pharaoh and the slave girl in Acts who had the spirit of divination just to name two. This is why Thessalonians 2 warns us against false signs and wonders.
Much of what Mike says is true. This is not to say that there are no Christians in the charismatic/Pentecostal movement, but at the same time far too much is attributed to the Spirit which in truth is more attributable to emotionalism or inner subjectivity.
I was in a Christian bookstore the other day, and they were airing a video concerning adoption. The woman in the video was doing the Bob Dylan trick of holding up scripted signs that face the camera which serve as her monologue. It was an interesting story about adoption, which is a great work for those called to that vocation. But one of the lady's cue card scripts said that God whispered to her and said she was going to adopt the children in question that she eventually got.
While it is certainly feasible that God can speak to people in such a way, it is very dangerous to make such an experience the standard for why anybody would or would not do something. Even if what is "prophesied" comes to pass, that in and of itself is no guarantee that the voice heard was God (see Deuteronomy 13:1-4).
What is really frustrating about this is that the charismatic theology is rippling into other denominations, even more conservative (and in some cases, confessional) movements. People from non-charismatic backgrounds are buying books and listening to messages from "gateway" charismatics like Osteen and Joyce Meyers, and as such are embracing ideas and theology that eventually lead to experientialism over Scripture.
The Nazarene church is flirting with this direction as well. There is a speaker by the name of Dan Bohi who is popular in the denomination, and he's pushing the Nazarenes to jump on the charismatic/Word of Faith bandwagon. He was one of the reasons that I left the Nazarene denomination and wrote an essay about what he promoted in his teachings (see HERE). He's really big about the "personal words from God." But one of the things that is often ignored with this is that leaders and members within other false religions have claimed personal words from God, and some have had their words "fulfilled" as well.
Sorry, link to my article did not come through: http://enterthevein.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/a-return-to-azusa-street3.pdf
There are lots of problems in Pentecostal and independent charismatic renewal oriented churches that Lutherans should be concerned about it.
The solution is not to "throw out the baby with the bath water" as dispensational/cessationist theologians advocate. Rather, we should have a balanced approach that "tests all things" and "holds fast" to that which is good.
A good site to explore the Lutheran view of charismatic gifts can be found at: http://postcessationisttheology.blogspot.com/2012/02/unicorns-and-jackass-theology.html
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