Tuesday, August 13, 2013

Response to Matt Haney Part 2

This week's program is a continued response to Matt Haney's lecture against a Lutheran understanding of the sacrament of baptism.

Listen here.


Anonymous said...

I enjoyed this response quite a bit! Thanks for taking the time to do this and for doing it so thoroughly. I look forward to part 3.

Mike Baker said...

Luther's Works are now a 59 volume set... a virtual library which is still growing as more of his works are being translated into English.

I submit that if Matt Haney only has 47 pages of notes on Luther's writngs regarding Baptismal Regeneration then he really has heard only a quarter of what Luther had to say on the subject.

I don't think that he is the expert on Luther that he thinks he is. Which is a shame, Luther's biblical and logical arguements are so sound that they might change Haney's mind.

Levi Nunnink said...

Putting aside the bizarre historiography & bad exegesis, how is Haney's sermon appropriate for Sunday morning?

I may disagree with Baptists but spending an hour+ preaching on why Baptist doctrine is wrongheaded isn't exactly preaching the Word of God, yeah?

Katy said...

It might be a Wednesday night or Sunday night service, or even special conference. However, the difference between Lutheran and Reformed homiletics (or lack thereof) would be an interesting topic. I've heard a pastor say the Lutheran and Calvinist branches of the Reformation adopted different medieval styles/ traditions of preaching, respectively. A lot of what passes as a sermon in a Reformed church might seem more Bible study or catechetical in style to us, while a Reformed person might think a Lutheran pastor a poor preacher (not enough exegesis, not long enough, etc.)

Katy said...

But I know a lot of Reformed who wouldn't find this appropriate for Sunday morning. Also, not sure why he singles out Horton. I haven't found his doctrine to be different from other Presbyterians, except maybe in the 2k dispute.

EJ said...

I sure hope that he responds to the rebuttals that are out there. This is an important discussion that needs to take place. So many people need to hear the truth about what the scriptures say about baptism.

Levi Nunnink said...


If you listen to the unedited sermon, it definitely seems like a Sunday morning context. He mentions at the beginning that he's taking a break from preaching through a Gospel book to talk about Baptismal Regeneration.

I believe he singles out Horton because of his Reformed Anglican ("Angel-ican"?) background. Anglicans confess baptismal regeneration although we're sometimes not as vocal about it as Lutherans.

Nicholas said...


I suspect that there is a strong stain of Baptist fundamentalism in Haney's thinking and theology (Dr. Cooper pointed out Haney's Baptist Successionism).

Here is another Baptist fundamentalist who attacks Michael Horton for believing in "Baptismal regeneration": http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/Horton/general.htm

And here is the same Baptist fundamentalist's attack on Martin Luther and other Lutherans:



The above links should give you an idea as to why it is so typical for someone like Haney to anathematize us Lutherans (as well as Michael Horton, the Federal Visionists, and others) as "heretics" with a "false gospel."

EJ said...

It is so frustrating hearing people say that the Lutheran reformation didn't go far enough. As if the further you are from Rome the better. They don't realize that they threw out the baby with the baptismal water. Another thing I hear is that Lutheran theology is just a stepping stone to Rome. I actually think its the opposite. Once a non-denom/Baptist discovers the ahistorical and unbiblical nature of their theology, they often go to Rome or give up on Christianity altogether.

Katy said...

"I suspect that there is a strong stain of Baptist fundamentalism in Haney's thinking and theology"

After listening to the third installment of this response, I think you're right. No Reformed Baptist I know would EVER say you should be able to point to exactly when you became a Christian. They associate it with decision theology/altar calls. etc.

My sister is involved in the New Apostles, Bill Johnson and IHOP movements. I often say that the awful theology is a dangerous mix of the highest ignorance and highest arrogance. I think I should expand that opinion toward White and Haney.